The Village BBS

Florida Arcade and Pinball Collectors => Technical Questions and Help => Topic started by: lutesaware on November 29, 2017, 07:35:25 PM

Title: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: lutesaware on November 29, 2017, 07:35:25 PM
Have a friend that has a pristine TAF and after changing the batteries it won't coin up.  It boots up and give all the start up messages then indicates zero credits.  It won't coin up or allow me to enter the test mode/ set up to change it to Free Play.  I haven't messed with these for a long time, so I've forgotten where to start.  I'd appreciate some guidance. 

Thanks
Tom
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: FUNWIZ on November 29, 2017, 08:39:22 PM
There's a door switch that closes when you open the door, that lets you into the settings.  It's probably stuck open.  Then you can check the connector inside the door next to the tilt, it might be disconnected/unplugged from the input board.
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: k7 on November 29, 2017, 08:53:34 PM
hopefully not your case, but I purchased a getaway years ago, that did everything, except it would not coin up and had some issues getting into the menus.

it was a bad MPU. corroded diodes from battery leakage/damage.

a bad door switch shouldn't affect you entering the menus. actually, it's most likely good if the machine is saying Insert Coins.

inspect that MPU for corrosion. good luck.
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: Mamushka on November 29, 2017, 09:28:30 PM
Have a friend that has a pristine TAF and after changing the batteries it won't coin up.

Were the old batteries corroded?
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: RAW POWER on November 29, 2017, 10:37:08 PM
If no corrosion, Check the connectors on bottom of cpu board. I believe it's the orange wires on the bottom left. It's probably corrosion though :(
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: lutesaware on November 30, 2017, 07:14:10 AM
I didn't see the old batteries, he changed them before I looked at the machine. 

As for the switch on the door, that was the first thing I checked. 

I suspect that I'm not getting any power to the door . . .  I just remembered that the lights on the coin slots were not illuminated.

It's been several years since I did any trouble shooting, just looking for some ideas to refresh my memory.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions . . . this is what I love best about this forum.
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: atarijim on November 30, 2017, 11:17:33 AM
Check the harness from the coin door to the interconnect pcb in the cabinet - the pins often break and if the ground lead is broken, none of the test switches will work; accounts for the lights not working also on separate pins.

aj
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: ibis on November 30, 2017, 03:49:20 PM
Check the harness from the coin door to the interconnect pcb in the cabinet - the pins often break and if the ground lead is broken, none of the test switches will work; accounts for the lights not working also on separate pins.

aj

That board AJ is talking about is to the left of the door.  I think I have a brand new one of those I bought years ago.  If its interchangeable with your game, and yours is broke, your welcome to it if you can't fix yours.
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: WannaTheater on December 01, 2017, 08:16:21 AM
You are welcome to remove the MPU and bring it up here (Odessa).  I can swap it in mine and see if the problem follows it-
If interested, PM me.
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: lutesaware on December 01, 2017, 11:30:00 AM
The machine is just south of Ocala; I'll be going up there next Wednesday to take a better look at it.  I'll check for the broken ground and take a closer look at the boards.

Thanks again for the tips and offers to swap boards.  ILYK.

Tom
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: k7 on December 01, 2017, 06:50:44 PM
if he used duracells, just bring an MPU with you, because those crap batteries probably corroded it all to hell. :-X

bring a couple of 555 bulbs too...coin lights may just be burnt out, but a quick bulb swap will verify that issue.

TZ uses the same MPU as my getaway...mine had corrosion that you could only see close up, killed by garbage batteries in it...I actually still have that MPU sitting here for a doorstop, somewhere. same issues...insert coin message, would not enter menus, and volume could only be turned up...not down.

hopefully, you can reseat connections or use great advice given here and get him up and running. good luck.  :) am curious to see what happened. snap some pictures.
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: CUJO on December 01, 2017, 07:23:39 PM
hopefully not your case, but I purchased a getaway years ago, that did everything, except it would not coin up and had some issues getting into the menus.

it was a bad MPU. corroded diodes from battery leakage/damage.

a bad door switch shouldn't affect you entering the menus. actually, it's most likely good if the machine is saying Insert Coins.

inspect that MPU for corrosion. good luck.

Yep, that's what my Popeye did after I got it home. It was corroded connectors at the bottom of the CPU board. Lots of them..
I cleaned them up, put an ext. battery on it but 4 years later, the acid came back even after a half a$$ cleaning I gave the board so now on a Rottendog CPU board for good measure.
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: lutesaware on December 02, 2017, 07:22:37 AM
I don't think it is CPU corrosion, I put a remote battery holder on it a couple of years ago.  I am going to take new Duracells and bulbs.  Plan to eliminate the simple things first. 

Thanks again to everyone for your tips and suggestions.

I'll report back here what I find out next Wednesday.
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: lutesaware on December 06, 2017, 04:23:28 PM
Well I went up to Ocala to day and got into the TAF.  Here's what I found:

No power to the coin door.  No light in the "start" button.

CPU boot properly, with the correct LED displays on the board.  All fuses checked out good.  No burnt or broken connectors on any boards.  No loose or disconnected wires.

I did find some anomalies with the connectors and the printed information in the manual:  Coin door connector runs through the Coin Door Interface board to J206 and J208 on the CPU - this machine has them plugged into J207 and J209 (directly underneath - same key plug).  Don't know if someone took them off and put them back in the wrong slots, I switched them to the proper slots with no affect.

On the Coin Door Interface the schmatic calls for a connector at J5 for the Test Switch, Service Credit Switch, Coin Slots, etc.  There is no J5, that connector is connected to J3 with corresponding identifications for the ground, coin slots, etc.  Is this an upgrade?  A misprint in the manual?

I ran a jumper off the Coin Door Interface J3 ground connector and was able to get to go into the Utilities.  The service switch, + switch, and test switch all worked, but the - switch did not.  With the ground jumper I still had no power to the rest of the coin door and the start button was still dead.

I changed the machine to free play and it was holding those settings after 30 minutes of being turned off.

I'm a little over my head on this one and sure could use some ideas.  I don't want to drag the machine down here.  It is in a game room over his garage with a two-landing, turning set of stairs.  Besides, it was a Treasure Cove high end restoration and it was delivered by professional movers.  I've tuned it up, put on a remote battery holder, replaced bulbs, shopped the playfield, and installed new rubbers over the years - but we've never had any "board" issues.  It sat unplayed for about a year and these problems were discovered when the owner replaced the batteries last month.

Hope somebody out there can help me figure this out.

Tom
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: FUNWIZ on December 06, 2017, 05:16:38 PM
When will you be going back?  I'll try to make up a chart that might help. 
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: lutesaware on December 06, 2017, 06:20:02 PM
Right now I don't plan to go back until I can put together a plan to diagnose the problems.  Next week at the earliest.
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: WannaTheater on December 08, 2017, 07:18:02 AM
Ragarding the comment about being connected at the MPU underneath the specified connectors, if I recall correctly, they are identical pinouts (i.e. can plug into top OR bottom).  I can check schematic when I get home tomorrow, but you should be ok on that.  For the (-) switch, did you verify the wires did not break off the switch tabs?

You mention no light to the start button- does the button work (i.e. start a game?)
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: lutesaware on December 09, 2017, 05:42:22 AM
I verified that all the buttons had connected wires.  It will not start a game or even add credits through the coin mechs.  I only got into the Utilities menu to set up FREE PLAY by grounding the black wire off of the connector at J3 on the Coin Door Interface board.
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: k7 on December 09, 2017, 08:36:07 AM
this game worked before the batteries were swapped.

can you take that MPU to test in another game? maybe it's not that. but I'd make sure. :)

Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: FUNWIZ on December 11, 2017, 07:56:37 PM
Ok, coin door wiring is all orange/xxx and grounded (black).  Check continuity for the ground wire going to all the switches on the coin door.  Wires pass thru the 14689 coin door interface board.  If your not getting a switch to work after checking to make sure the grounds are all ok, check to make sure the continuity from the switch back to the J205 connector on the CPU board is good.  If you can't get it into test mode to set it for free play, or to credit a game using the coin switches, the start button won't light up.

Or/brown  left coin      pin 1 J205, then goes to U17 pin 5
Or/red      center coin  pin 2 J205, then goes to U17 pin 7
Or/black   right coin     pin 3 J205, then goes to U17 pin 11
Or/green  test credit    pin 6 J205, then goes to U16 pin 9
Or/blue    vol down      pin 7 J205, then goes to U16 pin 11
Or/violet  vol up          pin 8 J205, then goes to U16 pin 7
Or/grey   enter test     pin 9 J205, then goes to U16 pin 5
Black       ground        pin 10 J205, grounded on board
Or/white   enable        pin 12 J205

Put the game into test, run it thru the tests, note the closed switches, see if any are stuck...

Start button (switch test 13) White/Orange pin 3 J208, then goes to U18 pin 5, and Green/Brown pin 1 J206, then goes to U20 pin 18. 

Credit button light (lamp test 88) Red/Gray pin 9 J133, then goes to Q83, and Yellow/Gray pin 9 J138, then goes to Q91.

If your getting the lamp strobes on the games start up, displays cycling and coils firing in the test mode, seems like it's getting power.

Ok, so did I miss anything?

Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: lutesaware on December 12, 2017, 05:55:55 AM
Wow, what a thorough check list.  I'm going to try to get back up there next week; if I can't I'll wait until the first of the year.  I'll let you know what happens.  Thanks again for the guidance.

Tom
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: busa32927 on December 12, 2017, 10:26:43 PM
i had the same issue with an Indiana Jones.  Battery had leaked.  there was a chip under the battery where the acid had dripped on.  didnt seem bad from looking at it and then later pulled it because i was not getting anything from the buttons on the coin door.  cleaned, re chipped, and re traced.  fixed the problem.

if someone had TAF i bet sending you some pics would be great.

good luck on the fix
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: lutesaware on December 13, 2017, 04:45:10 AM
Remote battery holder, no leakage on board.
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: kawikid on December 16, 2017, 12:48:41 PM
Sounds like broken cold solder joint in the bottom connectors of the cpu or corrosion in the same pins
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: lutesaware on December 17, 2017, 07:34:14 AM
Right now my plan is to check for continuity in the wiring from the coin door to the Coin Door Interface board; and from the Coin Door Interface Door to the CPU.  If the wiring checks out, then I'll pull the CPU and the Coin Door Interface board for one of you wizards to check out for me.
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: atarijim on December 17, 2017, 08:54:44 AM
Take some molex pins with you for the connector to the interface board
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: HammysHangout ( Hammy ) on December 17, 2017, 12:07:50 PM
did you test the inputs directly at the cpu board?
Disconnect J205.
Measure DC voltage to Ground Pins 6-9, they should read around 12v. ( they are pulled high via r79,r80,r81,r82,r75,r76,r77,r78 )

if you read 10+ volts, then jumper the pin 11 ( ground ) to each pin ( 6-9  ) and see if it works.

as jim mentioned, sounds like a missing ground to the coin door, most likely a bad molex pin or cold solder join on the interconnect board.

but the above will tell you if the issue is in the head or cabinet.

then move and test at input interface board. ( j1 ) , remove connector, run a jumper from Pin 15 ( switch ground ) to Pins 8-11 ( watch out for pin 2 , as this is lamp power ) - i am suspecting it won't work, as their is a break between the J205-10 and J1-15 on the interface board.

then move and test at the output of the interface board ( j3 ) , switch ground is j3-3 and and the service switches are j3-7,8,9,11
Title: Re: TAF Won't enter Test Mode or Coin Up
Post by: lutesaware on December 18, 2017, 06:45:49 AM
Jim, thanks for the reminder - I'll be sure to take some molex pins.

Bill, great details on the testing.  I'll let you know.

It looks like I won't get back up there until after the New Year.