Revised Trump v Hillary Poll - Final Edition

[kbvette]

Well you brought the educating thing up, you also stated the smart guys are staying away while us less smart guys are here. Not really sure what your point was

I'll hit on some of your points/statements:
- His tax returns, I already touch on this in another thread. But perhaps he is just giving the left less ammo? Do you think they would distort the truth? I do. I imagine it was the same for Obama and his transcripts.
- Admiring Putin. Like it or not Putin took a very broken country and brought back to the world stage, and his people love him. Is he a dirtbag, yup. But is he a great leader, I would have to say so. By making that statement it does not mean I like the man or respect him as a person. BTW, remember when Obama got caught on a hot mike talking to him? I would say his statement was probably a lot more scary than what Trump has said.
- Hillary in jail, I have heard the cries of people distraught about how Trump would start throwing his enemies in jail. Can we please stop the hysterical drama? When he stated the "jail" thing in the debate I pretty much realized he was talking about appointing a special prosecutor to look at the case, you know to follow the law. If you are an objective person you have to admit there are some very suspect things that have taken place.
- Benghazi, no jail for that. She was in charge = balls dropped = US Ambassador murdered = lies made = no one held accountable = discussing.

                               How the fuck do you know that the Russian people  LOVE Their dictator leader comrade Putin? He has absolute power over
 his people and is an enemy of the US , you do know that they have nuclear missles pointed at us don't you.

[mcluvin]

Well you brought the educating thing up, you also stated the smart guys are staying away while us less smart guys are here. Not really sure what your point was

The point is the smartest guys do avoid this thread.  Please note I'm in the thread so I'm not calling anyone any dumber than myself.  So we don't see how they would vote in this poll, but if we could, you'd still see Trump win, but Hillary would be even closer.

I'm really kinda done, but dude!  Russia's economy is in shambles.  There is no freedom of the press.  The people have no choice but to love him.  Putin is essentially a dictator and for a US presidential candidate to admire him?  It's unprecedented and alarming.

[AshBurton]

I'm voting Clinton as a vote against Trump.  I don't care if Trump has what plants crave.

[mcluvin]

I'm voting Clinton as a vote against Trump.  I don't care if Trump has what plants crave.

Trump absolutely has what plants crave and it ain't electrolytes.  Shi*!  Bigly!  He's full of it.

[Mr. Fuzzy]

Sadly, both of these candidates are a prime example of why I don't vote.

Trump: It doesn't take a lot to see that this guy would not be a good choice. No matter what, Trump gets what Trump wants. He believes in the golden rule - whoever has the Gold makes the rules. I don't really care about his locker-room talk, or his getting fresh with the women, it fits his personality perfectly. I'm sure his personal drive makes him capable of running a business very successfully. There are a lot of very driven individuals that can do just that. However, he would still run the country with a very "Me First" attitude. He totally lacks most of the qualities of a Statesman, one of which is the desire to be selfless and giving in the service of his nation. Another is Compassion. He scores very low in those areas.

Hillary: She has many of the same qualities as Trump, but she is a better liar. (Not really surprising, considering her experience) She is a very skilled politician, and you have to give her that. Still, her craving of power is so obvious that you don't even have to take a step back to see it. Like Trump, a large percentage of her own party is deeply frightened of having her in the main chair. She also is not a Statesman, but due to her experience as a politician, she covers it up better.

So the choice here is, vote for an amoral, valueless, self-centered dictator-type, with delusions of Godhood, or a professional amoral, valueless, self-centered dictator-type, with delusions of Godhood.

I'll pass.
-Dan

[Mamushka]

                               How the fuck do you know that the Russian people  LOVE Their dictator leader comrade Putin? He has absolute power over
 his people and is an enemy of the US , you do know that they have nuclear missles pointed at us don't you.

Why so angry? Calm down, drink some green tea or something.

"Polls and rankings

Putin's approval (blue) and disapproval (red) ratings 1999-2015. Putin reached an all-time high approval rating in June 2015 of 89%.[306]
According to a June 2007 public opinion survey, Putin's approval rating was 81%, the second highest of any leader in the world that year.[307] In January 2013, Putin's approval rating fell to 62%, the lowest figure since 2000 and a ten-point drop over two years.[308] By May 2014, Putin's approval rating had rebounded to 85.9%, a six-year high.[309]

After EU and U.S. sanctions against Russian officials as a result of the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine, Putin's approval rating reached 87 percent, according to a Levada Center survey published on 6 August 2014.[310][311] In February 2015, based on new domestic polling, Putin was ranked the world's most popular politician.[312] In June 2015, Putin's approval rating climbed to 89%, which was an all-time high.[306][313][314]

Observers see Putin's high approval ratings as a consequence of significant improvements in living standards, and Russia's reassertion of itself on the world scene during his presidency."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#Polls_and_rankings

I have also seen several interviews of people who went to Russia and they stated he was wildly popular there. Once again, I would not shed a tear if he got eaten by a bear, but the fact is, from what I have seen an read, he is quite the effective leader.

[Mamushka]

I'm really kinda done, but dude!  Russia's economy is in shambles.  There is no freedom of the press.  The people have no choice but to love him.  Putin is essentially a dictator and for a US presidential candidate to admire him?  It's unprecedented and alarming.

Why don't you take the hate colored glasses off for a second and look at this from a different angle:

Generals vs the enemy, corporations vs the competition, boxer vs his opponent. In all these cases it is not hard finding quotes involving words like "respect" and "admire". It does not change the fact that one wants to crush the other.

Trump has a reputation as a tough businesses man and regardless if you like his methods or not he is an effective leader. Perhaps his comments are from one ruthless leader about another ruthless reader who does not need to be underestimated. You can admire one's abilities and accomplishments but still want to crush him.

On another note, if someone wants to bash Trump on his appearance last night at the Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation Dinner (where both he and Hillary spoke) I will be jumping on the bash Trump side, he started out funny but quickly became a total ass 

[RussG]

I know I don't fall into your typical slot for this but here's an argument on the Trump/Hillary campaign election fiasco and how I believe it just might all be theater.

Not taking into account their past closeness and friendship.  Also the fact that Ivanka and Chelsea were also supposed to be close friends.

Hillary and Trump insult and threaten one another but they never truly have gone for the kill which they could have numerous times.
Their body language is also telling.  Arms around one another after debates.  uh huh.

They laugh at one another and Melania, Trump's wife was at this fundraising dinner chatting with Hillary.
If Hillary hated Trump the way she is supposed to she'd have nothing to do with him and want to bury him for his insults and accusations.
If Hillary was the evil threat Trump claims she is and he cares like he says, he'd do everything in his power to expose her and wouldn't laugh at her jokes or shake her hand and put his arm around her, etc.

I believe this was all staged to ensure Hillary gets the Presidency. She is so unpopular, anyone with charisma and legitimacy on the Republican side should be able to win. 
Trump played this entire election to a "fringe" group that simply do not have the numbers to win.  If you look at the demographics of the nation no way he can win based just one this alone and why the Republicans lost the last two elections.  That's if you think everything is on the up and up.

For Trump: It's a win for him because he's opened a new niche opportunity to milk that sector for millions after he loses. He can lead the charge against Hillary and so called Marxism.  I believe he will be starting a new media venture after this and Sean Hannity, Drudge, Breitbart, Savage, Jones and others will be moving into that arena to also capitalize.  It's a proven model that has been working since Limbaugh revolutionized it attacking Clinton and the "liberals" in the early 90's. 
All Trump's faithful will profit as well as they will carve their piece of the pie using a tried and true model attacking Hillary and the far left in the next 4-8 years.  I don't believe many of them ever thought it was as bad as they were preaching but it gets agitation and it gets ratings.

The winners:
Hillary and to a less extent Trump who muddied his name but gained a new different following.
Also winning is the same rich and powerful in control already. These are people who aren't spoken of often and who control Hillary, Obama, The Bush's, etc. They're the Bankers and leaders of industry who are filthy rich and making more money than ever.

The fooled: the electorate who put their beliefs and souls in believing the election fiasco.  Americans seem to get agitated and compelled every election cycle yet they know their representation wanes every year by the elected that is both extremely unpopular in poll after poll and is also beholden to special interests and big money.  We keep wanting to believe that elections make a difference but either little change occurs to benefit the people or things get worse from the freedom and liberty perspective.

The losers: the people

[WannaTheater]

... Dammit.
I just wrote a really well crafted response, and was trying to be politically correct, concise and to the point.  15 minutes in the making.  Then I accidentally hit the back key and lost it all!

To summarize:

Generals vs the enemy, corporations vs the competition, boxer vs his opponent. In all these cases it is not hard finding quotes involving words like "respect" and "admire".

I REALLY hoped to see this at the Al Smith dinner last night, where the candidates FOR 45 YEARS have generally made light-hearted self-deprecating jokes in an attempt to show their human side.  And Trump yet again truly showed the type of person he is, and there is no line he will not cross.

[Mamushka]

... Dammit.
I just wrote a really well crafted response, and was trying to be politically correct, concise and to the point.  15 minutes in the making.  Then I accidentally hit the back key and lost it all!

Well, as it was pointed out earlier in this thread, the people who post in this section are not the brightest 

[WannaTheater]

I'm as sharp as a marble...

[kbvette]

Why so angry? Calm down, drink some green tea or something.

"Polls and rankings

Putin's approval (blue) and disapproval (red) ratings 1999-2015. Putin reached an all-time high approval rating in June 2015 of 89%.[306]
According to a June 2007 public opinion survey, Putin's approval rating was 81%, the second highest of any leader in the world that year.[307] In January 2013, Putin's approval rating fell to 62%, the lowest figure since 2000 and a ten-point drop over two years.[308] By May 2014, Putin's approval rating had rebounded to 85.9%, a six-year high.[309]

After EU and U.S. sanctions against Russian officials as a result of the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine, Putin's approval rating reached 87 percent, according to a Levada Center survey published on 6 August 2014.[310][311] In February 2015, based on new domestic polling, Putin was ranked the world's most popular politician.[312] In June 2015, Putin's approval rating climbed to 89%, which was an all-time high.[306][313][314]

Observers see Putin's high approval ratings as a consequence of significant improvements in living standards, and Russia's reassertion of itself on the world scene during his presidency."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#Polls_and_rankings

I have also seen several interviews of people who went to Russia and they stated he was wildly popular there. Once again, I would not shed a tear if he got eaten by a bear, but the fact is, from what I have seen an read, he is quite the effective leader.

          Not angry.......green tea no thankyou

[Baiter]

How many more Benghazi probes do we need before this one gets put to bed?

The real answer?   At least as many many times as it takes for congress to vote to appeal the ACA.  Last count we are up to 63 times... 63 times congress has brought the vote to the floor and 63 times it has been shot down.  There is no better evidence to disfunction in our federal government.  I know they believe that the ACA is a bad thing, and bad things should be fixed, but it smacks of a lack of acceptance of both the will of the people, and of the laws of the land.

[WannaTheater]

Sean, you are way to smart and logical for this sub forum.  Please blow your stack at least once, or stick with the "Buy/Sell/Trade/Auction" side of the house.   


 

[Baiter]

Sean, you are way to smart and logical for this sub forum.  Please blow your stack at least once, or stick with the "Buy/Sell/Trade/Auction" side of the house.   

Facts should sell themselves...except in political discussions.   

As an add-on to my previous thought Trump is already exhibiting this same disturbing anti-democratic behavior, stating in advance that the election will be rigged against him.  Let that sink in for a minute, reflecting on the behavior of congress after ACA, or closer to home, Rick Scott's rejection of the high speed rail amendment which passed in Florida.  These are our leaders, or proposed leaders, rejecting the people's will, which ultimately is a rejection of democracy itself.  It's bad times, and I fear it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Look, I understand Trump is very smart, and maybe the purpose of his rigged election claim is a last ditch rally effort to get all of his supporters to the polling booth to nullify the "rigging".  However just as likely it could keep people at home feeling it is futile to vote in a rigged election.  Ultimately I can't feel comfortable with someone who has outwardly denounced the democratic voting process without actually making an effort to fix it prior to his denouncement.  Where were these accusations months ago when his popularity was still rising?

The second article below is actually the more interesting of the two.

WASHINGTON—Charges that election results might be rigged have moved from the fringes of U.S. politics to a central issue in the closing days of the 2016 campaign as Republican Donald Trump has repeatedly and without corroborating evidence suggested a fair outcome may be impossible.

The 2000, 2004 and 2008 elections were hard-fought contests that all contained scattered allegations and conspiracies of fraud or mismanagement—most notably, the largely unsubstantiated claims that the Ohio election results from the 2004 campaign were inaccurate.

But those claims have taken on an official veneer in the 2016 campaign as Mr. Trump has spent the final weeks of the race raising doubts about the integrity of his contest against Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton before most votes have even been cast.

He has accused the media, the Justice Department, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and a “global power structure” of conspiring to rig the November election against him.

At Wednesday’s debate, Mr. Trump alleged that there are “millions of people that are registered to vote that shouldn’t be registered to vote” and cast doubt on whether he would accept the election results.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-brings-election-rigging-charges-front-and-center-1476914927

In recent days, Donald Trump has ratcheted up claims of voter fraud, claiming that the Nov. 8 election may be “rigged” against him. In Wednesday’s debate, he refused to pledge that he would accept the result if he loses, saying that he would keep the nation “in suspense.”

These sorts of claims are common among sore losers in authoritarian states, sometimes not without good reason. But casting serious doubt on the outcome is a radical departure from established practices among political leaders in democratic states during the modern era — and from previous U.S. nominees in our lifetime. Trump’s claims are particularly concerning given that there is little evidence of voter fraud in modern elections.

So why make these false allegations?

These types of claims may serve several strategic functions. They provide sore losers with a way to save face, excusing a poor performance. They also may erode the electoral legitimacy of the winner, sowing doubts about their governing authority, as well as causing chaos by making it harder to bring Congress and the country together after a bitterly fought campaign.

[It’s not just Trump. Authoritarian populism is rising across the West. Here’s why.]

The main effect of these charges on the mass electorate may be to discourage turnout (“Why should I bother to vote if it’s all rigged?”), weaken confidence in the presidency, Congress and political parties, and erode satisfaction with the performance of American democracy. My book “Why Electoral Integrity Matters,” the first volume in a trilogy on the subject published by Cambridge University Press, demonstrates consistent evidence from the World Values Survey that these sorts of perceptions of electoral integrity matter for trust and confidence in elections and democracy in many countries.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/10/21/trumps-election-rigging-claim-will-backfire-heres-the-evidence/