Author Topic: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)  (Read 586 times)

Offline Bronkzilla

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Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« on: September 01, 2017, 08:28:13 AM »
Well, Millionaire repair continues. I have replaced the Power Supply to correct the bridge Reflector problem of blowing the 8amp sb fuse with a Gulf Board brand new Power Supply.
Now , I found a burnt coil while waiting for the board to get here. AE-23-800-03 top of the play field left side with purple or violet wires. I removed it and tested it it was dead.
When I fired up the machine, it seemed to start out right, then the display showed some angled lines ,no letters both #1 & #2 player displays, as I looked over things I smelled something getting hot, as I went to turn off the game, smoke started to rise from the top of the board, after getting it off I found that another coil was hot and still smoking. It was the bottom jet bumper. Same type coil that I had found earlier. I see the blue and yellow wire and white with red (violet maybe) . I did not try anything further. It looks like I came up with this: 8-P3-21 and 8-P3-20. That said, I can make no sense of it. It looks like it is the Flipper wires on the diagram. But my guess is a dead short, or something is making the coil react, sending the wrong signal and it is stuck,so the coil is staying in the activated position, causing it to burn out. I fell, if I disconnect that coil and turn it back on, it will burn the next one in line.

3 weeks ago, I never saw the inside of a pinball machine, or a circuit board. so, bear with me please, I thought I was making progress, only to get deeper in the mud. I have bought LEDs to reduce heat and power stress on the system and am trying to learn what and how to test things. I seem to have both wheels in the sand spinning and am not making any forward progress. Maybe the Q77 or Q69 thing is bad, I don't know what or how to proceed. That's all the facts I can provide, any direction would be appreciated. Thank's
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Offline ibis

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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2017, 08:31:47 AM »
I give you a ton of credit for jumping in feet first like you are, takes some stones to start off with such a headache of a game.

Offline Mamushka

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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2017, 11:05:18 AM »
But my guess is a dead short, or something is making the coil react, sending the wrong signal and it is stuck,so the coil is staying in the activated position, causing it to burn out. I fell, if I disconnect that coil and turn it back on, it will burn the next one in line.


That should not happen. Your coils (all of them) have power on them when you are playing the game. They are activated when the machine connects the other wire to ground completing the circuit. This is performed by transistors on the driver board. I would check all the drive transistors before firing up the game again. Do you know how to test them?
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Online FUNWIZ

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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2017, 12:07:36 PM »
Your problem is your too gung ho, fixing a game properly takes lots of work and time...just because you have a new power board, doesn't fix the original problem that took out the old one.  You can't just hook everything back up and expect it to magically work.  You need to be able to be Sherlock Holmes and find the start of the problem, fix that, then repair the damage to all the other areas that first problem started.  Most big problems on pinballs is that someone tried fixing a small problem, didn't have a clue on what to repair, then started doing more damage, and gave up, passing the game/trouble to someone else, they did more damage, and now you have the game, and your trying to repair all these items at once.  Sounds like the cpu board has a few driving transistors blown and possibly the predrivers/resistors.  You might also have pinched wiring between the head and cabinet, and a wire touching ground.  There is a grounding braid that goes all around the inside of the game, everything metal is attached to it in the cabinet and head, (not the playfield), such as transformer, rails, coin door, speakers, and the metal plate holding the boards in the head. 

The coils have positive power on at all times, the computer completes the circuit by closing the ground circuit, making the coil fire.  If any wire is loose or damaged, and it touches an object that has been grounded by the braid, it can do damage to the game.  Check all wires. 

Pull out your large cpu board, lay it flat on a non metal surface.  Using your tester, set it on beep test, ground one wire to the boards ground, and using the other lead test.  Tap the top of each of the driving transistors that are located along the bottom of the board.  If you get a beep, it's bad.  Inspect its predriver and resistor for damage also.     

Here's a few pix to go by. 16 transistors in lower left, 6 in upper right for the coils, leave the lower right alone, those are for lamps.  You'll notice what a blown transistor might look like, a burned resistor and the predriver Q72 in the middle, all bad. GL


« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 12:50:09 PM by FUNWIZ »
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Offline Brtlkat

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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2017, 08:11:19 AM »
I would say your doing fine, Jumping in feet first and being gung ho.  Good way to learn the machine/system you are working on. You are on the right track knowing that it may be a bad transistor. Your doing more then people that been on this site for years, There are some that sell machines for a living and cannot fix simple opto issues ;D.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 08:13:18 AM by Brtlkat »

Offline Bronkzilla

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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2017, 11:21:38 AM »
 :) Thank's, I don't mind the smack down,since it was followed by instruction and pics which is helpful. My plan was to learn slowly as I went, However, things were not as they were represented. I have no choice but to accelerate my learning and it would seem that there are some good coaches on this site. I am determined to learn and understand this stuff. So, again , Thank you for the encouragement.
Be Impeccable with your word. Don't take things personally. Don't make assumptions. Always do your best. Be skeptical, but listen.
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Offline Mamushka

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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2017, 11:08:19 PM »
:) Thank's, I don't mind the smack down,since it was followed by instruction and pics which is helpful. My plan was to learn slowly as I went, However, things were not as they were represented. I have no choice but to accelerate my learning and it would seem that there are some good coaches on this site. I am determined to learn and understand this stuff. So, again , Thank you for the encouragement.

Go here: https://hansbalk.home.xs4all.nl/rep/sys11/index2.htm#transand
and search for Testing Transistors
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Offline Bronkzilla

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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2017, 12:20:34 AM »
Not a one was bad. I went to the link, followed the directions to the letter. Several times, the switched meters, still not a one was shorted. Checked the ground, and It was exactly as per the link said, "ground strap to back box board" Thank you , it was for a little bit, exciting.  :(
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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2017, 12:32:58 AM »
That's good.  Ready for another test tonight?  Your not blowing fuses, and the coils are no longer staying on?  What are you needing tested or fixed next?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 12:39:15 AM by FUNWIZ »
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Offline Bronkzilla

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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2017, 12:42:59 AM »
Removed the bad coil from yesterday, and today all the new ones I ordered came in. One kicker seemed to be stuck, IE: it kept repeating the kicking, it is got the same color wire as the others or close anyway. It is the same coil as the others. Now the display is not all lighting up, so I am not able to read much for testing with the system. However, the sound worked fine, the lights seemed good, all the knockers and flippers and doors opened and closed, and best of all, nothing was burning or smoking. I was able to read in the bottom left 2x2 display it showed 1D and in the #4 display it showed 5L3. And yes, I am ready to do what ever you say.
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Offline Bronkzilla

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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2017, 12:51:16 AM »
I could not find any switches that were stuck, I also looked very closely at the wires around the coils and made sure nothing was touching anything it was not to be. Also, the small square 2.5X2.5 that a lot of the wires connect to was warm. A couple of wires on the CPU I tested when I was testing the transistors did get me a buzz, most were black grounds, but a few were not. I just don't know if they were supposed to or not. Top left on CPU gray wire was one
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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2017, 01:32:31 AM »
Ok, when you say kicker, let me know where's it's located or coil number, using the pf charts.  What displays are out?  Do they have an orange glow in the background?  Your going to have to tell me what troubles your still having, I can't see the game from here....sounds like it's almost ready to play.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 01:48:59 AM by FUNWIZ »
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Offline Bronkzilla

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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2017, 03:48:07 PM »
Replaced coils 23-800-03 Bottom Jet and 24-900-02 checked all transistors as directed, none shorted./  All # 89 lights on back box are not lighting. #1 & 2 display not lighting completely/ and bottom jet bumper that just had coil replaced locks up as soon as I try to run test. (activates and stays activated) I just don't have enough knowledge nor enough experience to expect address so many issues on my very first pin. I've learned a lot, but not enough to to be able to play this machine. Thanks to FUNWIZ for staying the course with me. I think I need to enlist a service call by someone qualified to effect a repair. I certainly have acquired plenty of new parts to replace most anything.Price is of little consequence at this point, I can't buy my 2nd pinball without the first one running. And now a hurricane knocks on the door.
Be Impeccable with your word. Don't take things personally. Don't make assumptions. Always do your best. Be skeptical, but listen.
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Offline georgetwo922

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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2017, 04:29:47 PM »
With it pulling those coils on power up, and you can't find a bad driver, I would suspect one of the PIA chips is bad. These are the 6821 40 pin chips. I believe it would be either u40 or u41, but probably will be located in the corrosion zone. If the PIA goes bad it can cause any components down the line to be activated. Unless someone has worked on the board previously, they probably are not socketed either. Hope that helps.

Offline Bronkzilla

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Re: Relocated Post (help for the dummy)
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2017, 10:47:58 AM »
I have not quit. I had to remodel our kitchen and it took a while. I also got 2 more pins, (Pin Bot ,and Flash) working!!! I have dedicated a room for the pins and have to say Thank You to Georgetwo922b for his direction. But, Funwiz had  been teaching me and directing me. Spending much time sending pics and doing all but fixing the problem himself. Thank You, I have ordered transistors and am getting 6821 chips, however, I do not feel qualified to work on the board at all. Wires, diodes no problem, but the board, no way. Just wanted to update , and say Thank You to all that have contributed. I have learned much and will learn much more thank's to you all.
Be Impeccable with your word. Don't take things personally. Don't make assumptions. Always do your best. Be skeptical, but listen.
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