Author Topic: Movie Review: The Last Jedi [Spoilers]  (Read 1193 times)

Offline Hamster

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Movie Review: The Last Jedi [Spoilers]
« on: December 14, 2017, 11:46:06 PM »
Spoiler: show
 The "In Memory of Carrie Fisher in the credits was cool"


Spoiler: show

Go watch it, End of Review.
muhahahah




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Offline King Jelly

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2017, 03:22:01 AM »
I didn’t want to see any spoilers...
But I clicked yours anyhow, knowing you’d be kind.

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Offline PinFever

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2017, 08:43:35 AM »
best one since R of Jedi / approved

Offline Shdwknt

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2017, 09:47:25 AM »
the movie was awesome - a few things could have been toned down a bit.. but otherwise.. absolutely amazing
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Offline bjones

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2017, 10:07:14 PM »
Have to admit, on first viewing this was a letdown movie for me.  It's trying so hard to be 'shocking' that it's just missing the undertones of Star Wars.  I actually want to see a good old fashioned lightsaber duel with two very confident force masters fighting for good and evil.  I want to see someone truly learn the ways of the force and come into their own.  I really wanted the ending act with Luke to really mean something, and the whole thing with cuddly creatures as plot devices is just meh.

On the other hand, there was one space battle that was brilliant while another was pretty bad.  I put this one in the middle of the prequels.  I enjoyed TFA and Rogue One but this not so much.
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Offline number six

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2017, 12:28:28 AM »
This is going to be pretty much all spoilers.

Where to begin..

I guess we'll start off with what I enjoyed about the film. First I really liked seeing Mark Hamill on the big screen again. He's a great actor and I usually enjoy his work. It's a shame he never really got much attention outside of video games and voice over after Star Wars. I also enjoyed.. umm... OK on to the not-so-good parts.

In the opening sequence they make an odd choice.. they send up General Hux (sp?) with a series of gags about being on hold. This is stupid for a number of reasons.. one would be that phone hold jokes are a bit out of place In a Galaxy Far, Far Away and it takes you out of the narrative. The second bigger problem is that it defuses any tension and menace from one of your central villains. For these type of movies to work you need to hate the villains and like the good guys. If you make the villains look stupid or silly you remove the ability to make them fearsome later on which is exactly what happens.

This key misunderstanding of how plots and tone work continues throughout the film. We get a number of gags and jokes throughout the movie.. so many in fact that you never really feel any sense of danger. Obviously Star Wars has always been about fun and adventure but there's enough peril there to make things work. If you go back to previous films the jokes are few but used effectively when they are employed. The Last Jedi eschews that going for cheap laughs whenever it can. This makes for an uneven tone which is not a good way to start.

Per my post yesterday the one thing I was most apprehensive about The Last Jedi was the possibility it was going to recycle plots from previous films.. ie the main sin committed by The Force Awakens. Unfortunately to get into the ole Star Wars spirit I watched Return of the Jedi before seeing this which was a huge mistake. We all joked that Last Jedi better not rip off Empire.. which it does at the beginning and the end.. but in a weird twist about 40% of the film is a direct recreation of key sequences from Return of the Jedi. This includes lines of dialogue and entire sequences. The even manage to get the Death Star II Millennium Falcon chase in by substituting a salt cave. I begrudgingly overlooked this before assuming that they just wanted to get everyone back to basics but at this point it's obvious there are NO original ideas floating around for these films and that's inexcusable and it sucks.

The biggest problem with the Last Jedi though is obviously the plot or the lack of coherence in what plot they do have. If you take away the bits they stole from previous films there's not a lot to sink your teeth into. The main focus of much of the movie is this rediculous scenario where the First Order is chasing the Rebel Fleet. For some reason they can't catch up to the fleet nor can they call for faster ships to help. Instead they must spends days? chasing them constantly shooting at them even though apparently their guns aren't strong enough to do anything. None of this makes sense.

This is intertwined with several sub-plots. There's a sequence where Finn and Forgot-her-name-sorry have to find this master code cracker to break into the swear-its-not-a-death-star big ship (which has insides that look exactly like a Death Star) and stop them from tracking the fleet. This takes up about 30 minutes and ends up adding absolutely nothing to the plot. It's obviously used only to give Finn something to do because otherwise he'd just be standing around. Well I say it adds nothing to the plot but it gives us about 7 minutes of Benecio Del Toro which to be honest was the other highlight for me (sorry I forgot that earlier)..  that guy is always great.

There's the Rey/Luke/Kylo subplot that takes up a good portion of the rest of the first and second acts. Luke is a tired loser who lives on an Island with a bunch of plush animals and Vogons from the Hitchhikers Guide movie. He was really bad ass in Return of the Jedi but he kinda sucks now. Rey and Kylo have a bond and might be turning each other to the Dark/Light side.. it ends up in a repeat of the Emperor scenes from Return of the Jedi but in a crazy plot twist they simply kill Snoke and any decent story points at the same time. Bet you didn't see that one coming! Zing! There was some potential here but it was alas, mostly wasted.

The finale has them finally ripping off Empire with a recreation of the infamous Hoth battle. Remember how awesome that was? Well this version is mostly stupid. For some crazy reason the Empire lands a bunch of AT-ATs to take out this rebel Fortress. Astute viewers will remember they had to do this previously because there was a shield generator preventing an orbital bombardment. There's no shield generator here but they still land AT-ATs and do that whole thing anyway. This sets up the fabled return of Luke Skywalker.

Now I figured they were going to kill Luke off.. presumably in a scene meant to mimmick the Obi Won sacrifice from Star Wars. If they are going to plumb the greatest hits again at least we'll get one last good Luke light saber battle.. but once again zing! Fooled you.. Luke's not really there.. h'es just force projecting from a rock so instead of a light saber send off he just dies on a rock later because its apparently really hard to do this. Did you see that coming? Of course not because it's stupid.

I dunno.. this movie was a fucking mess. It's painfully obvious that there's nobody at the wheel on these movies that has any idea of where things are going. Most of the groundwork built up in the previous movie is just swept away here. The Rebel Alliance? Reduced to like 15 people. Snoke? Killed off in almost a joke scene.. good luck getting me to care about any future villains fellers. Remember when they said General Phantasmo (or whatever) would have a bigger part later on? They lied.. she's the new movies' version of Bobba Fett only with even less relevance to the plot.

There's virtually nothing to like about this movie. The action sequences are uninspiring and forgettable.. there's not a single sequence here that will stick with you.  There's no real character development, at least nothing that feels like it's leading anywhere and the movie mostly ends with a reset.. only with half the characters unceremoniously killed off. It's almost a crime to see the wasted potential here. Why make these decisions? Why build up your villains in one film to turn them into jokes in the next? Why couldn't anyone figure out what to do with main characters like Poe and Finn? The prequels weren't good by any stretch but at least there was a vision of some sort there.. I don't see anything like that here.

Still, it will make lots of money and the Star Wars teat will be suckled until its blue milk runs dry. We saw the film at an upscale hipster theater and everyone clapped whenever any of the 'memberberries' sequences happened.

OMG! I REMEMBER THAT!!! OMG IT'S THAT THING FROM THE DEATH STAR!!! OMG ITS AN X-WING!!!!11!!

I thought somebody in the audience was going to shit their pants when Yoda showed up. At least it appeared to be the puppet Yoda versus the shitty CGI one.. but I guess that's mainly to drive home the "do you remember this?" feeling.

Personally though I am thoroughly disappointed with this film. Not only was it derivative and lacking in imagination what new items it did bring were pointless and stupid. It also ran about 30 minutes too long. This is easily the worst Star Wars film, for me even below Episode II which was basically a CGI demo.

Obviously you'll go see it and by all means do.. you might like it.. but at this point I'm questioning how much more Star Wars I want. I was a little apprehensive about this film already.. I definitely wasn't feeling the hype.. all the Mark Hamill coded messages for "It Sucks" kinda stuck with me and he was right.. he was right.

Offline number six

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi [Spoilers]
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2017, 09:50:35 AM »
The more I think about The Last Jedi the more I think it's just inept.

For example the Rey reveal. This was designed to make the statement that anyone can be special, it doesn't matter who your parents are. This is echoed in the final shot of the film where we learn a lowly stable boy has the force. OK nothing wrong with that but you have to do it better. You don't tease Reys parents for a movie and get everyone excited just to say 'eh they're just some people'. That's not satisfying and will disappoint people (which it obviously has.. man the user reviews on most sites are grim).

The infuriating part here is they could have easily done this in a way that worked. If this is your ultimate goal then you don't tease mystery parents.. you infer her parents are someone of note. Make her believe that and make it central to her character and her motivations. Then in this film strip that away by revealing her parents aren't the high-class whoevers she thought but instead they were just some junk dealing assholes. It's a twist but it's also a character dilemma as you can use that to throw her entire perspective into chaos. You then have her come through it and realize.. ta-da.. it doesn't matter and you have character growth.. you also drive your point home a lot better.

They of course didn't do this obviously.. probably for one of two reasons.

First they just didn't realize this "reveal" was going to be more disappointing than unexpected and people weren't going to like it (because you shouldn't really) or Two.. and this is the more worrisome reason.. Rain Johnson had a completely different vision from JJ Abrahms so the plan got changed when he took over and whatever the original intent was for her parents was simply dropped in favor of this new narrative.

If the latter is the case (which makes the most sense with the equally stupid Snoke endgame) it shows that there is no vision here and they are just throwing shit at the wall each time.

I really think Disney rushed Star Wars out after the buyout. With the Marvel movies they started off slowly making the individual movies and only teasing an eventual Avengers film. By the time they actually made Avengers they had been making Marvel movies for years and they had a good understanding of how to make them.. they also had the luxury of 60 years of Comic Books to fall back on. With Star Wars I think they just said lets get something out as fast as possible to recoup our investment but didn't really plan it out properly.. and it really, really shows.

Offline Cloud2Ground

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi [Spoilers]
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2017, 01:38:12 PM »
I'm so trying not to read this!!! Putting on my dilated pupils glasses now  8)
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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi [Spoilers]
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2017, 01:44:45 PM »
I'm so trying not to read this!!! Putting on my dilated pupils glasses now  8)

Yeah no sh!t!

I haven't seen it yet and won't be going for a few more days as my cousin wanted me to wait and see it with him.
I hated the first movie but loved Rogue One.  Not boding well for this one based on Village reviews.

Offline Hamster

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi [Spoilers]
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2017, 02:49:20 AM »
i enjoyed it, and thought it was a good movie, i don't expect any person to get a movie true to its history today... the day that happens, politicians will be honest and do what is right for our country and not what makes there pocket hold more cash.
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Offline k7

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi [Spoilers]
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2017, 02:49:13 PM »
the spoilers are awesome. saved me 14 bucks. :)
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Offline WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi [Spoilers]
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2017, 06:54:42 PM »
Just left the theater..

Qui-Gon Jinn’s drum solo was pretty awesome.


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Offline Niloc

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi [Spoilers]
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2017, 06:50:01 PM »
My first thought was "Is that Ade Edmondson, from The Young Ones as Hux's second-in-command?" - yes it was, PERFECT casting for an Imperial officer there IMO and he gets out of the movie without embarrassing himself, which can't be said for most. Not entirely clear but I think he died towards the end. Good for him.

I didn't hate Episode 8 as much as Number Six did, but I definitely had a hell of a lot of problems with it and I don't have any hope that Episode 9 will somehow fix anything.

I agree 100% that tone was a huge problem. Humor is fine, comic relief is fine, but the original Star Wars movies had a serious tone with moments of humor to keep it from being too dark for kids or getting depressing. It wasn't The Three Stooges in Space. Don't START with a joke. Don't START THE MOVIE by making one of your main villains a clear buffoon, taking away any possible threat. Chewie eating porgs worked as comedy, most of the rest was cringe-worthy.


Major spoilers ahead (of course);

Snoke - they set up a big mystery - who is he? Where did he come from? How is he so powerful? Apparently the writers had no ideas either so lets just kill him off and forget about it.
If you setup a mystery, you damn well better have a some satisfying answers... if anyone in the world should have learned that lesson it's J.J. Abrams with LOST - but apparently once again he was all setup, and the people who came after him had no ideas either

Phasma. This character design tested off the charts with fans. Super-toyific. We have no clue what to do with her either so lets kill her off too. Finn can kill her in hand-to-hand combat? Sure, why the fuck not...

Rey - not clear if the explanation about her parents was the final word, or the truth, but for now it seems to be and again it comes down to... we got nothing. No ideas and we couldn't even make this work.

Laura Dern's Admiral character... couldn't put her in a uniform or something so we could maybe take her seriously? Nope? Ballgown and purple hair is what we're going with? OK, whatever...

Hux - totally cannot be taken seriously at this point, and this is the leader of the entire First Order military? Right under the Supreme Commander?

Leia - Plenty of chances to send Leia off with some dignity now that Carrie Fisher is gone, and they ignored all of them. How much better would it have been if Leia had been the one who stayed behind on the capitol ship, and then took out most of the First Order fleet, sacrificing herself? Give her character a great way to go out as a hero, and strike back at Kylo Ren, explains why she isn't going to be in the next movie and they could have Laura Dern continue on as her replacement, the most senior military leader in the rebellion.

Poe - disobeys orders constantly, stages a god damn outright mutiny for fucks sake and his superiors are all "LOL, yeah he sure is a loveable goofball alright!".

Rose - Rose was... fine? Uninteresting, meant to fill the a part that wasn't a Jedi (Rey) or a bad-ass (Poe), but wasn't that Finn's whole thing?


I got the space battle I wanted but it wasn't done very well in my opinion.

As others have stated, large parts of this movie were re-makes of Empire and Jedi, which I don't think anyone wanted.

They snuck in a teeny-tiny Death Star (just the gun) right at the end...


I don't know if this is technically correct, but it feels like they're making the whole movie at once - special FX and all - so that once they find out a scene doesn't really work, they've already spent so much on it they're kind of locked in. Rather than shooting all the parts with the actors first, doing a rough-cut to find out what works and what doesn't, then fixing what doesn't work and THEN finalizing it and spending the money on CGI and explosions.


As Number Six said, this feels like they're just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks... the original trilogy had that lived-in galaxy, not just in look but in feel as well, there was a ton of implied backstory - things where they fleshed out explanations even if it wasn't directly stated in the movies. Episodes 7 and 8 ape the look of the originals but lose all the thought-process behind it.


Lastly... do I want to watch it again? No, I don't. The original trilogy was all about the re-watch value. I enjoyed watching Rouge One a second time (and a 3rd with the Rifftrax). Episode 7 felt like a chore the second time I watched it, and I probably won't re-watch Episode 8 at all.



« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 01:05:08 AM by Niloc »

Offline Niloc

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2017, 06:55:19 PM »
Still, it will make lots of money and the Star Wars teat will be suckled until its blue milk runs dry. We saw the film at an upscale hipster theater and everyone clapped whenever any of the 'memberberries' sequences happened.

Just saw it this afternoon, at a 1:30pm screening. Regular old AMC mainstream megaplex theater.

Surprising: weekday afternoon, schools still in session - the theater was 85% full. Mostly older people too, only a few kids - seemed like younger kids too, maybe 5 or 6 years old.

No one clapped at any point though. None of the crap that I've read about online with people applauding when Carrie Fisher shows up on screen. No clapping at the end either. The audience just seemed to take it in, neither loving it or hating it. Not much chatter afterwards either, and I got the feeling that it was too long and a bit too dull for the younger kids there - they just seemed tired out, not excited. Everybody was mostly just in a big hurry to get to the bathrooms.


Other things re: AMC theaters too - buying the tickets is a weird process now. It's at a kiosk, but it's staffed. Seems like they're just employing people to get customers used to using the touchscreens, so that they can then fire all those employees. It's awkward.

Plus they miss the whole point of the "self serve" model because you still have to wait in line for just a few slots like a bank, rather than just having a shit-ton more of the kiosks.

I wonder if they're going to fire the people who tear the tickets too - usually someone disabled doing that job so that's going to go over like a lead balloon if they fire them all, but if they're getting rid of the ticket sales people the tear your ticket shit is way more out-dated than that...

The reserved seats too - sounds good in theory, but my ticket said "seat 117" - get into the theater, and the seats aren't numbed. The rows are labeled... with letters, not numbers. So we just muddled into the seats we thought were what the kiosk showed and hoped for the best.

I'm done with movie theaters, only go as a social thing these days, once, maybe twice a year and dropping... really don't know if I'm going to see Episode 9 in the theaters. If it was coming out tomorrow the answer would be "no".




« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 07:07:51 PM by Niloc »

Offline TimothyC

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Re: Movie Review: The Last Jedi [Spoilers]
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2017, 08:41:55 PM »
I need to watch it again, but man I found it to be disappointing after the first viewing.  The porgs ruined every scene they were in, Leia turns into Mary Poppins, they *forced* ESB on us but tried to make it different ("It's salt"), but the worst for me were how Snoke and Luke died.  TFA left us with so many questions about Snoke and not a single one was answered in this film, nor was there anything close to an epic showdown with anyone.   

Making Luke a bitter old hermit just wasn't right.  You knew going in he was toast given the name of the film, but having him die from simply being powerful was beyond lame.  I'm sure some of the issues/plot lines people are having problems with are explained in the Expanded Universe, but I don't want to have to read dozens of books to understand what happened.