Author Topic: S-hole countries  (Read 1548 times)

Offline Yosho

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2018, 06:36:48 PM »
You are making huge assumptions.  Instead of reasoning, you are attacking,  being argumentative, and talking around the question.  Read those first few words again.  You are the POTUS.  Are you telling me you think shit hole is the best response, or even an OK response?  I'm asking you, rather than just jumping to that conclusion.

Trump is a vulgar person, so yes... I'm not surprised he'd use a vulgar term in a private and frank discussion with the people who were crafting legislation to fix immigration.  If he had come out and made a public statement and refered to them as s-hole countries, then I think we could all agree that that would be inappropriate - but again, that's not what he's alleged to have done. 

I don't consider myself a vulgar person, but I know I've refered to certain countries I've been to as s-holes and been glad when I was able to make it home safely.  I know I wasn't refering to the good people living in those countries, just all the crap they had to put up with that I was able to leave behind when I left.  I still haven't seen anyone else here say they've never refered to (or thought of) a country as a s-hole.  Heck, last time I was in Detroit I said that, which is near to my heart since I was born there and family is from there, but that doesn't change the fact it's a failed city at this point and largely a s-hole.  I feel sorry the good people of Detroit are stuck with their problems and diminished opportunities.

Offline Rich Jax

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2018, 07:52:58 PM »
So you think Trump is the only president that has said something inappropriate during a closed door meeting?
Easy there buddy.  I was just stating what the standard levels of demeanor and professionalism are that are expected in our country today.  Not sure why you spun that into a compare and contrast of previous Presidents?

Offline Mamushka

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2018, 07:57:24 PM »
You are the POTUS.  Are you telling me you think shit hole is the best response, or even an OK response?  I'm asking you, rather than just jumping to that conclusion.

Would I make a public speech saying this? No, behind closed doors? More than likely, just like I am reasonably sure most other presidents have said (and done) things in meetings they would not want publicly leaked.

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Offline mcluvin

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2018, 08:23:40 PM »
Would I make a public speech saying this? No, behind closed doors? More than likely, just like I am reasonably sure most other presidents have said (and done) things in meetings they would not want publicly leaked.

One year into his presidency, does Trump really think a meeting with a mix of Republican and Democratic politicians is private?  He can't even trust Bannon to keep his mouth shut.  I'd think every word would be well thought out and guarded.  Obviously that is not the case.  Regardless, look at the ensuing shit storm and consider a more diplomatic choice of words would have avoided the shit storm entirely.  While we're talking about this I'm fairly certain Trump is jerking off to the idea that we're all talking about this.  I have no expectations that he is remorseful in any way.  And some of you keep trying to justify him.
 Ha!

Offline Yosho

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2018, 08:42:56 PM »
Well I agree with all that, but rather than defend him, I'm trying to point out that it's hypocritical to criticize him in the first place.  So at this point, I'm a bit confused... are you guys saying that Haiti isn't a s-hole or just that Trump's honesty on the topic is too vulgar and well.. honest for a private meeting and he should have used more cleaned up PC terms?

I think Trump should record all his meetings at this point.  I'm still not entirely convinced he said this as there is sooo much to gain by his opponents claiming he did.  The only reason this was made public was to damage Trump's power and shift it to his opponents.

Offline Mamushka

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2018, 11:04:36 AM »
Regardless, look at the ensuing shit storm and consider a more diplomatic choice of words would have avoided the shit storm entirely.  While we're talking about this I'm fairly certain Trump is jerking off to the idea that we're all talking about this.  I have no expectations that he is remorseful in any way.  And some of you keep trying to justify him.
 Ha!

I agree with you here, I do think Trump is enjoying this. Do you remember the massive Keystone pipeline protests that dominated the news years ago? Do you know it is now green lighted? Well while the news is still focused on "mean tweets" and yet another anonymous story (who has actually claimed he said shithole again?) Trump is pushing things through with barely a wimpier from the opposing forces because they are too focused on the diversions thrown out by Trump.

Ha!   
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Offline kbvette

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2018, 12:20:38 PM »
I agree with you here, I do think Trump is enjoying this. Do you remember the massive Keystone pipeline protests that dominated the news years ago? Do you know it is now green lighted? Well while the news is still focused on "mean tweets" and yet another anonymous story (who has actually claimed he said shithole again?) Trump is pushing things through with barely a wimpier from the opposing forces because they are too focused on the diversions thrown out by Trump.

Ha!
                              The slap reality delivers will leave a mark.....I suggest you duck.
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Offline mcluvin

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2018, 06:33:24 PM »
Well I agree with all that, but rather than defend him, I'm trying to point out that it's hypocritical to criticize him in the first place.  So at this point, I'm a bit confused... are you guys saying that Haiti isn't a s-hole or just that Trump's honesty on the topic is too vulgar and well.. honest for a private meeting and he should have used more cleaned up PC terms?

I think Trump should record all his meetings at this point.  I'm still not entirely convinced he said this as there is sooo much to gain by his opponents claiming he did.  The only reason this was made public was to damage Trump's power and shift it to his opponents.

I think Haiti probably is a shit hole, but I've never been there, and nobody other than my wife, kids, and a few friends care what I think anyway.  I'm saying it's not hypocritical to hold the POTUS to a higher standard because if I were POTUS, I'd hold myself to a higher standard, as would most because everything the POTUS says has an impact.  Most people get this.  Somehow he doesn't, or just doesn't care.  And if it were just this one screw up, sure, you get a pass.  His body of work so far is pretty f'n amazing in a bad way.  He's awful and has no business being the POTUS.  I hope this Presidency is the low point and we learn from this.  3 more years.....

Offline kbvette

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2018, 06:45:11 PM »
I think Haiti probably is a shit hole, but I've never been there, and nobody other than my wife, kids, and a few friends care what I think anyway.  I'm saying it's not hypocritical to hold the POTUS to a higher standard because if I were POTUS, I'd hold myself to a higher standard, as would most because everything the POTUS says has an impact.  Most people get this.  Somehow he doesn't, or just doesn't care.  And if it were just this one screw up, sure, you get a pass.  His body of work so far is pretty f'n amazing in a bad way.  He's awful and has no business being the POTUS.  I hope this Presidency is the low point and we learn from this.  3 more years.....
                Trumps "governing by insult and diversion" is not a sustainable strategy,short sighted at best.The midterms are right around the corner...fun times ahead!
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Offline Yosho

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2018, 07:53:09 PM »
I guess we'll see.  The Democrats don't have a message yet or a candidate.  Bill Clinton was able to appeal because he marketed himself as a new Democrat who was younger, more moderate and less socialist than previous Democratic leaders.  The current Democratic party has doubled down on the globalist/elitest/leftist/socialist/social justice messages.  Until the Democratic party comes up with a message that can appeal to White factory workers and farmers, they're going to struggle in the rust belt states.

Trump is Trump.  He's incredibly flawed and isn't the ideal President, but he is effective in tapping into many of the issues of his base, and if his opponents think his base is just a bunch of racist white KKK members, then they'd better get ready for 7 more years and not 3.  The Dems need a viable alternative and message if they're going to win.  So far I'm not seeing it, and Trump's actions will probably prevent a more moderate challenger from appearing.  His outrageous behavior insights extreem responses from his opponents which weed out the more moderate opposition that would likely appeal to a broader cross section of the electorate.

Offline Mamushka

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2018, 08:55:06 PM »
His body of work so far is pretty f'n amazing in a bad way.  He's awful and has no business being the POTUS.  I hope this Presidency is the low point and we learn from this.  3 more years.....

In all sincerity, I felt this exact way about Obama.  I am also thrilled with what Trump has done so far  ;)
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Offline mcluvin

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2018, 09:43:02 PM »
In all sincerity, I felt this exact way about Obama.  I am also thrilled with what Trump has done so far  ;)

Well you and Vladimir Putin have something in common then.  На здоро́вье!

Offline Yosho

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2018, 10:08:42 PM »
This week President Obama made the comment "If you watch Fox News, you are living on a different planet than you are if you are listening to NPR.”  I totally agree with him, but perhaps for reasons he might not understand from his perspective.

For 8 years if you disagreed with Obama's policies, decisons, and public statements, then you were labeled a racist.  Not a Hillary supporter?  You're in a basket of deplorables that you know... are all racists.  Vote Republican or watch Fox News?  Racist.  Don't support Gay marriage for any reason?  Homophobe.  Don't support non-binary gender roles?  Bigot.  Don't believe in affirmative action at Universities and race/gender quotas in business? Racist/Sexist.  Don't support chain migration, visa lottery, and want strong border security?  Racist/Bigot.  Own guns?  Crazy threat to society.  White and go to Church?  Probabaly a racist and a bigot.  So, when the press/Democrats go on there latest tantrum calling Trump a (fill in the blank), most of us who have fallen into one of the above categories just chalk it up to more of the same.  We figure those same people would probably unjustly call us an ugly name too and is in large part what allowed Trump to secure the Republican nomination and win the Election - I'm actually shocked the Democratic party hasn't figured this out yet.

If the Democratic Party leaders and their allies in the Press really think this line of attack will work, I think they may be in for another rude awakening.  Trump doesn't represent the ideal President to most Republicans or Conservatives, what he represents is their frustrations.  That's not going to go away by calling him names.  What Trump will have on his side in 4 years is a record.  If he can continue to show what he's shown in the last year, I think he'll actually increase the number of votes he gets.  The real question for the Democrats is can they field a moderate that will stay away from the racial and divisive language that has ruled the Democratic leadership during the last decade.  If they can, they stand to pick up even more votes than Trump will.  Remember, according to the actual vote totals... Trump and Republicans didn't so much win the Election with his supporters as Hillary and Democrats lost it by her low turn out..  Moderates did not turn out for her and many stayed home all together.  Republicans that couldn't stomach Trump's flawed personality and weren't convinced he could provide credible policy will have something to look at and judge him by beyond his latest controversy.  So far, his policies and decisions (though often very poorly rolled out) have been in line with what most of his potential voting base would want from him.  That's trouble for the Democrats.  If the Democrats want to win in the next election, they need a John F. Kennedy, not a Michelle Obama or Sen. Kamala Harris or Sen Elizabeth Warren.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 10:15:33 PM by Yosho »

Offline Mamushka

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2018, 10:51:42 PM »
This week President Obama made the comment "If you watch Fox News, you are living on a different planet than you are if you are listening to NPR.”  I totally agree with him, but perhaps for reasons he might not understand from his perspective.

For 8 years if you disagreed with Obama's policies, decisons, and public statements, then you were labeled a racist.  Not a Hillary supporter?  You're in a basket of deplorables that you know... are all racists.  Vote Republican or watch Fox News?  Racist.  Don't support Gay marriage for any reason?  Homophobe.  Don't support non-binary gender roles?  Bigot.  Don't believe in affirmative action at Universities and race/gender quotas in business? Racist/Sexist.  Don't support chain migration, visa lottery, and want strong border security?  Racist/Bigot.  Own guns?  Crazy threat to society.  White and go to Church?  Probabaly a racist and a bigot.  So, when the press/Democrats go on there latest tantrum calling Trump a (fill in the blank), most of us who have fallen into one of the above categories just chalk it up to more of the same.  We figure those same people would probably unjustly call us an ugly name too and is in large part what allowed Trump to secure the Republican nomination and win the Election - I'm actually shocked the Democratic party hasn't figured this out yet.

Basically the Trump supporters will vote for Trump if he clubbed baby seals in the oval office and his haters would not vote for him if he lowered black unemployment to the lowest level on record   if he became a vegan and made Al Gore the environmental czar.

It's only the people in the middle that are important and just like Yosho pointed out, those people in the middle who swung the election to Trump have been attacked by those on the left. Repeatedly calling them racist, stupid and homophobes is probably not the best way to bring them back into their camp.
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Offline Mamushka

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Re: S-hole countries
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2018, 11:08:08 PM »
Well you and Vladimir Putin have something in common then.  На здоро́вье!

And with your views you have more in common with Bradley Manning  8)
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