Author Topic: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.  (Read 2509 times)

Offline Pinball Shark

  • Level 5: Power User!
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Location: Lutz, FL
  • Posts: 712
    • PinballShark.com
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2010, 04:51:43 PM »
Have you read through the Marvin guide for these problems?

http://www.pinrepair.com/wpc/index.htm

Just a few weeks ago my White Water was resetting when the flippers were used, using that guide, I tracked it down to some faulty connectors. I replaced about 5 of them connecting to various boards and the problem is gone. I also had a pop bumper and flasher that weren't working and I just had to replace the large TIP resistors on the driver board.

I've never had any fuses blow on mine, but that guide has yet to let me down.  :)
www.PinballShark.com
Restoring Fun, Excitement, and the Art of Pinball

Offline Pinball Shark

  • Level 5: Power User!
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Location: Lutz, FL
  • Posts: 712
    • PinballShark.com
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2010, 04:54:37 PM »
Here's the sections on flippers.

http://www.pinrepair.com/wpc/index2.htm#flip0
www.PinballShark.com
Restoring Fun, Excitement, and the Art of Pinball

Offline Tdchewy

  • Level 4: Cobra Kai
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Location: Orlando
  • Posts: 396
  • Mmm..Bacon
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2010, 05:27:39 PM »
No it does not energize upon game start. It actually appears to be working properly now after replacing the 1n4004s on the coil. Seems strange that when i replaced the coil that it didnt work, i suppose the new coil mnay have had faulty diodes on it. Thanks guys! I am psyched to have this working again. I knew it had to be something simple.


Edit: after realizing that I had swapped the fliptronics board last night from my fish tales, I put the original fliptronics board back into white water and now, upon game start, the left flipper is energized and sticks in the up position when the flipper button is pressed once, but even before the button is pressed, I can feel by touching the flipper that it is energized before the button is pressed.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 05:53:48 PM by Tdchewy »
Arcade: Hard Drivin' sitdown, Race Drivin' cockpit, Crisis Zone,Loaded 2 player Mame cabinet
Pins: Homemade virtualpin

Offline Mamushka

  • Level 8: Psi Corps
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Location: Lithia (Tampa)
  • Posts: 2542
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2010, 06:39:18 PM »
No it does not energize upon game start. It actually appears to be working properly now after replacing the 1n4004s on the coil. Seems strange that when i replaced the coil that it didnt work, i suppose the new coil mnay have had faulty diodes on it. Thanks guys! I am psyched to have this working again. I knew it had to be something simple.


Edit: after realizing that I had swapped the fliptronics board last night from my fish tales, I put the original fliptronics board back into white water and now, upon game start, the left flipper is energized and sticks in the up position when the flipper button is pressed once, but even before the button is pressed, I can feel by touching the flipper that it is energized before the button is pressed.

I would say that the "hold" transistor is bad. Have you tested the transistors according to the guide?
Pins: TAF, FG (not the Ah-Haaa one), SM, FH.
Past Pins: IJ, STTNG x2, WH2O x3, CFTBL, NGG, ES, MB, TFTC, LW3, TZ, SS, BG, LOTR, Monopoly couple of EM's
Other (AKA Vids): Cocktail MAME

Offline Tdchewy

  • Level 4: Cobra Kai
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Location: Orlando
  • Posts: 396
  • Mmm..Bacon
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2010, 06:54:21 PM »
No I have not tested them, but it looks like some of them have been replaced before. I am going to try replacing the transistors and diodes mentioned earlier by tktlwyr and post back with results.
Arcade: Hard Drivin' sitdown, Race Drivin' cockpit, Crisis Zone,Loaded 2 player Mame cabinet
Pins: Homemade virtualpin

Offline Tdchewy

  • Level 4: Cobra Kai
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Location: Orlando
  • Posts: 396
  • Mmm..Bacon
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2010, 07:21:00 PM »
OK, So I replaced q3, q10, q18, and d6 as suggested, but it is still energized upon game start, but the fuse doesn't blow any more.
Arcade: Hard Drivin' sitdown, Race Drivin' cockpit, Crisis Zone,Loaded 2 player Mame cabinet
Pins: Homemade virtualpin

Offline tktlwyr

  • Level 8: Psi Corps
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Location: Pembroke Pines, FL
  • Posts: 2157
  • Lord of the Slings
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2010, 07:36:29 PM »
Go into switch test and see if the flipper switch is activating.  At this point, I'd lift the playfield and check the left flipper opto board.  The interrupter may be warped and not returning to the board all the way, i.e. not blocking the receiver opto from the transmitter opto.  Ibis had a similar problem a few weeks ago.
David Paz
Pins:  AC/DC Premium, Gottlieb Atlantis, BSD, EB, EBD, IMDNLE, I500, Joker Poker, NBAFB, Outer Space, Paragon, ST:TNG

Offline Mamushka

  • Level 8: Psi Corps
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Location: Lithia (Tampa)
  • Posts: 2542
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2010, 07:51:41 PM »
Go into switch test and see if the flipper switch is activating.  At this point, I'd lift the playfield and check the left flipper opto board.  The interrupter may be warped and not returning to the board all the way, i.e. not blocking the receiver opto from the transmitter opto.  Ibis had a similar problem a few weeks ago.

He said that when he swapped boards the problem went away so I doubt it's the flipper opto board. I would pull the fliptronics board, check all the transistors and really look the board over. Could be a solder bridge from the previous work.
Pins: TAF, FG (not the Ah-Haaa one), SM, FH.
Past Pins: IJ, STTNG x2, WH2O x3, CFTBL, NGG, ES, MB, TFTC, LW3, TZ, SS, BG, LOTR, Monopoly couple of EM's
Other (AKA Vids): Cocktail MAME

Offline Tdchewy

  • Level 4: Cobra Kai
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Location: Orlando
  • Posts: 396
  • Mmm..Bacon
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2010, 08:06:31 PM »
Go into switch test and see if the flipper switch is activating.  At this point, I'd lift the playfield and check the left flipper opto board.  The interrupter may be warped and not returning to the board all the way, i.e. not blocking the receiver opto from the transmitter opto.  Ibis had a similar problem a few weeks ago.

Switch test shows no activity until flipper button is pressed, even though I can feel the coil heating up and vibrating a bit. When the button is pressed, the eos switch stays on until I push the flipper down by hand.
Arcade: Hard Drivin' sitdown, Race Drivin' cockpit, Crisis Zone,Loaded 2 player Mame cabinet
Pins: Homemade virtualpin

Offline Tdchewy

  • Level 4: Cobra Kai
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Location: Orlando
  • Posts: 396
  • Mmm..Bacon
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2010, 08:08:41 PM »
Go into switch test and see if the flipper switch is activating.  At this point, I'd lift the playfield and check the left flipper opto board.  The interrupter may be warped and not returning to the board all the way, i.e. not blocking the receiver opto from the transmitter opto.  Ibis had a similar problem a few weeks ago.

He said that when he swapped boards the problem went away so I doubt it's the flipper opto board. I would pull the fliptronics board, check all the transistors and really look the board over. Could be a solder bridge from the previous work.

Yeah, I'd tend to agree with you there that the issue seems to be isolated to the fliptronics board. I even just tried swapping the opto board with another known good one and it made no difference. I guess I'm just going to have to go over the fliptronics board with a fine tooth comb. thanks for all the suggestions guys
Arcade: Hard Drivin' sitdown, Race Drivin' cockpit, Crisis Zone,Loaded 2 player Mame cabinet
Pins: Homemade virtualpin

Offline tktlwyr

  • Level 8: Psi Corps
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Location: Pembroke Pines, FL
  • Posts: 2157
  • Lord of the Slings
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2010, 08:58:49 PM »
Chewy,

can you test Q9 (TIP102) for me?

Put your DMM in diode mode.  Put the black lead of the DMM on the metal tab on top of the transistor. Put the red lead of the DMM on each of the two outside legs of the transistor one at a time. A reading of .4 to .6 volts should be seen. Put the red lead on the center transistor leg (collector), and a zero reading should be seen. Any other value, and the transistor is bad and will need to be replaced.
David Paz
Pins:  AC/DC Premium, Gottlieb Atlantis, BSD, EB, EBD, IMDNLE, I500, Joker Poker, NBAFB, Outer Space, Paragon, ST:TNG

Offline Tdchewy

  • Level 4: Cobra Kai
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Location: Orlando
  • Posts: 396
  • Mmm..Bacon
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2010, 09:19:07 PM »
Chewy,

can you test Q9 (TIP102) for me?

Put your DMM in diode mode.  Put the black lead of the DMM on the metal tab on top of the transistor. Put the red lead of the DMM on each of the two outside legs of the transistor one at a time. A reading of .4 to .6 volts should be seen. Put the red lead on the center transistor leg (collector), and a zero reading should be seen. Any other value, and the transistor is bad and will need to be replaced.

You're good man. One outside leg read .5 something and the other read 0 the center leg read 0. I'll replace that q9 in a bit and let you know how it works out. thanks!
Arcade: Hard Drivin' sitdown, Race Drivin' cockpit, Crisis Zone,Loaded 2 player Mame cabinet
Pins: Homemade virtualpin

Offline tktlwyr

  • Level 8: Psi Corps
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Location: Pembroke Pines, FL
  • Posts: 2157
  • Lord of the Slings
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2010, 09:34:16 PM »
As long as you're in there, you may want to follow our previous protocol and replace D5 (1N4004) and Q17 (2N4403), too.  They may have been stressed or part of the failure.
David Paz
Pins:  AC/DC Premium, Gottlieb Atlantis, BSD, EB, EBD, IMDNLE, I500, Joker Poker, NBAFB, Outer Space, Paragon, ST:TNG

Offline Tdchewy

  • Level 4: Cobra Kai
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Location: Orlando
  • Posts: 396
  • Mmm..Bacon
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2010, 10:04:08 PM »
As long as you're in there, you may want to follow our previous protocol and replace D5 (1N4004) and Q17 (2N4403), too.  They may have been stressed or part of the failure.

Dude! I owe you a beer. I replaced q9 and the flipper works great now. I will now replace D5 and q17 as well.
thanks again
Tim
Arcade: Hard Drivin' sitdown, Race Drivin' cockpit, Crisis Zone,Loaded 2 player Mame cabinet
Pins: Homemade virtualpin

Offline tktlwyr

  • Level 8: Psi Corps
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Location: Pembroke Pines, FL
  • Posts: 2157
  • Lord of the Slings
Re: Whitewater Blows F903 when left flipper is pressed.
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2010, 10:11:33 PM »
Happy to help and glad it's fixed!

Working my way towards a six-pack!
David Paz
Pins:  AC/DC Premium, Gottlieb Atlantis, BSD, EB, EBD, IMDNLE, I500, Joker Poker, NBAFB, Outer Space, Paragon, ST:TNG